It's probably an obvious one, but in making a gallon batch of black currant wine, the recipe says not to squeeze the straining bag when removing it. I wondered why as it doesn't explain.

(I use a fairly new, completely clean, large double layer fine nylon straining bag. When I lift it out, a hell of a lot of liquid is still in the bag. If I just let it drip through it would take a few days hanging, if I discard it I am losing a good 500ml of liquid.

So I disobeyed and squeezed very gently making the bag tight above the pulp but not directly squeezing it until there was about one and a half wineglasses of fluid left amongst the fruit spoils. (There was no obvious passage of any puree or anything through the mesh.)

Is this a throwback to cotton bags or for those who use single layer coarse bags? Or, was I still wrong to squeeze a little?

Thanks for any knowledge offered!

Jim

I squeeze all the time and I have never had a problem. Grape, raspberry, blackberry you name it. In my opinion it is just a personal preferance.

Well if you do it all the time and haven't had any problems, perhaps it doesnt apply to modern equipment / approaches? MInd you Jack Keller's recipes say the same now.

Someone mentioned that sqeezing encouraged pectin out of the pulp and into the wine. I don't know if it applies as much if you have used a pectic enzyme. I had, the recipe suggested it but also said not to squeeze.

Did the directions suggest sparging? I don't brew wine, I brew beer, I have also been told in recipes not to squeeze the grain bags.....and now that you mention it, I was never told why. If you sparge the grain bag with equal temperature, you will drain all of the liquor off of the grains.

Chris.

Wine wise, not squeezing the bag holds back pectins, tannins and fiber from the grape (or fruit) that would otherwise not be naturally extracted.

However, don't most whole fruit wines involve the use of a fruit press to get *everything* out of the source? So why the disparity?

The reason is that most new vintners want something drinkable in a shorter period of time. The recipe might say to wait 2 years, but it'll be drinkable in 1. Overall, it'll likely be less complex than the whole fruit versions, but still satisfying.

Almost all recipes for beginners assume impatience. However, if the recipe is followed to the letter, I would expect a superior product.

The beer thing... I would answer that, but it is off-topic, in this thread. The answer lies in starch, haze and storage stability.... Suffice to say that wines are not sparged... and have little in common with beer other than yeast and alcohol.

Kev.

Hi, thanks both for your ideas.

The recipe is one of Jack Keller's but it is brief. It sounds like squeezing the bag to get a reasonable amount of residual must (which is otherwise literally sitting in a pool over the sunken fruit in the straining bag) is no big deal. Thanks for your thoughts on that Kevin.

I can deal with a longer settling period for clarity if that is the main repercussion. I added pectic enzyme in the first instance so pressumably that should have sorted out the majority of the free pectin in the gross must.

I am in the early months of a 6 gallon plum wine which just makes me laugh it is so far from settled out The must contained so much fruit that my bag (the largest my wine-store sells) was full, with just enough material to be tied off! I stirred the primary with the bag in it and gave it a gentle squeeze (the recipe says stir the bag. I think in hindsight they probably meant 'open the bag, stir it and tie it back up again'. I took it to mean 'make sure the bag gets some agitation'. Pectic enzyme was used and I know plum has a reputation for being a devil to clear. There's hardly anything visibly settling after this 2nd racking, but the wine is quite opaque.

Patience isn't one of my main virtues yet (but I am developing it). As a distraction I have decided to make regular grape-juice kit wines (and 'Welches Purple Grape Juice' wine) which finishes and recovers reasonably quickly. That way I can make enough wine to drink something reasonably good whenever I fancy it while not touching my from scratch fruit wines till they have had a good year in glass. I admit to drinking the off-lees wine to get an indication of how it might be - but after that I can wait (the raw flavour helps to put me off, I just have to remember to forget it will taste nice next year)!

yes you do squeeze all the juice out you can, i use a press and really squeeze it hard. that is part of wine making and after that you can make a false wine from the plup if you want, buy using the plup, water, sugar. or honey, and acid test it. the second run from wine grapes i do with honey makes a great mead.
Art Frewin
Art's brewing supplies
artsbrew@qwest.net
www.users.qwest.net/~artsbrew
801-533-8029

Free and press run juice are often kept separate in the production of fine wine. The press run is used for topping, blending, and lower priced products. Press run often contains more potassium which gives it a higher pH. It also typically contains higher levels of tannins, pigments, and volatile acidity. Even when press run is processed separately, it often turns out to be of excellent wine and is blended back with the free run with no loss of overall quality, and sometimes even adding intensity and/or complexity. Hmm, one more implement in the wine makers' toolkit.

Your recipe probably discouraged squeezing in order to minimize pectins, and to reduce the extraction of tannins. As others have suggested, that might be a good idea if the wine is to be consumed while relatively young. Pectic enzyme does help degrade the pectins, allowing the wine to clear more quickly.

My personal experience suggests that lightly squeezing the straining bag will have minimum ill effects.

Regards,

Rick is right about what he said I think for the most part. I do not know if it has more potassium, but pressed could be more acidic I am not sure, but the tannins are pressed out giving it more astringency. this is not terribley bad and if it is more acidic that would explain why they will age longer then the free run. If it has a higher ph it would not store as well. I keep my free run and pressed separate. If I need a little more to top off my free run I will use the pressed. Plum always cleared for me easily, now apricot and peach that is a different matter. We usually make a mead with the used skins and is turns out a great blush mead. My free run and pressed both have excellent color at least I can not tell the difference. The pressed wine talks longer to age then the free run, and I believe it will age longer then the free run also, maybe the tannins and acidity I am not sure. The pressed wine takes more time to clear also, and the tannins will slowly age out. This year I pressed my wine as hard as i dared with my press, which is very hard. We will see how it turns out.
Hoppily yours,
Art's Brewing Supplies
Art Frewin
arsbrew@qwest.net
www.users.qwest.net/~artsbrew
801-533-8029