Shineman, demijohn, and why wino,
Thanks for the replies regarding my winemaking questions. They actually brought up another question. What are the repercussions of not stirring the wine on a regular basis while it's fermenting? It seems to me that that could cause contamination. Of course you would sanitize the stirrer but it still seems risky. As far as the benefits of stirring while you transfer, is that simply to keep all the yeast in there and not lose any? I thought that the reason for transfer was to get the wine off of the layer of yeast at the bottom so that you don't get any off tastes, or to clarify it more. I'm still learning stuff and I thank you all for your input.

after pitching the yeast, i usually turn over the top layer of floating stuff for a few days just to keep the yeast working under the cap, i don't really stir the whole fermenter. i don't want to disturb the bottom layer and i don't want to bring in any contamanents or drive off the co2 blanket on top. when i transfer the first time i'm not too careful about not picking up the sediment off the bottom and i usually press the the top layer to get the color and juice there. when i rack from then on i am pretty careful not to pick up anything except the wine and to keep it clearing up. i don't know what the norm is , but i have good luck doing it this way.
gary

watchtowerblues wrote:Shineman, demijohn, and why wino,
Thanks for the replies regarding my winemaking questions. They actually brought up another question. What are the repercussions of not stirring the wine on a regular basis while it's fermenting? It seems to me that that could cause contamination. Of course you would sanitize the stirrer but it still seems risky. As far as the benefits of stirring while you transfer, is that simply to keep all the yeast in there and not lose any? I thought that the reason for transfer was to get the wine off of the layer of yeast at the bottom so that you don't get any off tastes, or to clarify it more. I'm still learning stuff and I thank you all for your input.

I gently stir the must in the primary twice a day. All the way to the bottom. My primary is a 10 gallon food grade trash can. I sterilize all of my equipment. I leave the stirring spoon and my farmtech wine thief which contains my hydrometer in the primary while it is working. I place a large muslin cloth over my primary during primary fermentation and it is held in place with a shock cord that goes around the trash can. I add campden and 24 hours later sprinkle the yeast on top and start my stirring 24 hours later to get oxygen to the yeast. When the SG goes down to approx. 1.030 I remove the fruit bag, squeeze it gently to remove excess juice. I then stir the primary gently while transferring to my 6 gallon carboy. I do not want to remove all of the yeast since it is still not finished fermenting. Two or three weeks later I rack off of the gross lees into a 5 gallon carboy when fermentation has stopped. If I have extra wine, I bottle it in a wine bottle, cork it, and place it in the fridge and use it to top off later. I haven't changed my procedures much since 1973 except for more modern equipment like a refractor, bottler, and mini jet filter.

The below web site is real interesting. Jack Keller is pretty much an authority on wine making. Scroll down to the bottom and check out the boxes. More info than I have ever found in a book.

http://www.winemaking.jackkeller.net/request.asp

I never stir my wines unless I have a fruit sack in it where I basically punch it down under the surface to keep moist. If I am using straight juice I don't open the fermenter until it is time to check the SG and rack. I have always found that the less I play with the wine the less chance I have of introducing an infection. I will say though that if you practice good cleaning and sanitation skills it is pretty tough to ruin a wine.

I stir my wine twice a day 24 hours after I add the yeast until I transfer to the secondary. I want to get oxygen to the yeast. Once I transfer to the secondary I do not stir the wine anymore. I transfer everything to the secondary because the SG is usually about 1.030 to 1.020 and fermentation is still going on. I do not want to remove the yeast, just the fruit bag. Once in the secondary I install an air lock. I then rack off of those gross lees in two to three weeks.

There is some difference of opinion in every little procedure of wine making. Most of the procedures will get you to the same place. I started making wine back in the early 70s and getting too old to change my procedures. The main thing I have found while making wine is cleanliness and keeping minimal head space in the carboys. Add sugar until the specific gravity is where you want it, check the acid, add your chemicals and let the must do its thing.

I'll add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with stirring the wine during primary fermentation. Many do it with tremendous success and it isn't a bad idea if you are using fresh pressed grapes for example. Like I said, if I have a mesh bag of fruit in there I will stir it to keep the mass wet to extract the flavors as the fruit sack will float on top. Unless you boiled the juice for an extended amount of time though there is plenty of oxygen in the liquid for the yeast though. Many snap the lid of the primary bucket on tight and add an airlock. This is not required though. You can cover the bucket with cheesecloth to keep nasty floaties out or simply set the lid on the bucket without snapping it down tight. Also, if you are making kit wines from a concentrate you should be stirring the must vigorously when you add water to rehydrate the concentration and water together. Simply pouring them together will not mix them. The stirring then will add more than enough oxygen. I normally use my Mix Stir in a cordless drill to mix everything up. To sum it up, there is nothing wrong with stirring as long as your sulfite levels are fine. You aren't going to oxidize the wine. It can speed up a slow fermentation by getting live yeast cells back into the suspension. It isn't anything you have to do but if you want to by all means go for it.

Swampwater Brewing wrote:I'll add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with stirring the wine during primary fermentation. Many do it with tremendous success and it isn't a bad idea if you are using fresh pressed grapes for example. Like I said, if I have a mesh bag of fruit in there I will stir it to keep the mass wet to extract the flavors as the fruit sack will float on top. Unless you boiled the juice for an extended amount of time though there is plenty of oxygen in the liquid for the yeast though. Many snap the lid of the primary bucket on tight and add an airlock. This is not required though. You can cover the bucket with cheesecloth to keep nasty floaties out or simply set the lid on the bucket without snapping it down tight. Also, if you are making kit wines from a concentrate you should be stirring the must vigorously when you add water to rehydrate the concentration and water together. Simply pouring them together will not mix them. The stirring then will add more than enough oxygen. I normally use my Mix Stir in a cordless drill to mix everything up. To sum it up, there is nothing wrong with stirring as long as your sulfite levels are fine. You aren't going to oxidize the wine. It can speed up a slow fermentation by getting live yeast cells back into the suspension. It isn't anything you have to do but if you want to by all means go for it.

I cover my primary with muslin held in place with a shock cord. I leave the hydrometer and stirring spoon in the primary while it is fermenting. I do keep the fruit bag punched down because like you said it needs to keep moist.

i cover my fermenter with plastic wrap then put the lid on the bucket loose. i don't use a bag so i have to turn over the cap of fruit every day. when i'm ready to transfer i leave the pulp behind and press it out into the must through a strainer and put a lock on it and wait for it to finish. the only time i use a bag is when i am mashing corn because it's a mess to separate later.
gary